How To Hit The Apex Without Getting Clubbed By A Seal

"DailyTurismo" (thedailyturismo) 07/01/2015 at 13:36 • Filed to: Daily Turismo, Blog, RX-8, Mazda, Zoom Zoom

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Man, I miss my RX8. If you’re a gearhead / amateur grease monkey with an engine hoist, there’s no better deal out there right now in the sports car world than a first generation (SE3P) 2004-2008 Mazda RX-8 . Just go into it with the right mindset and expect to spend $2k on the thing every 10 years.

And throw what you know about engine maintenance out the door. They’re still a Mazda, so the components of the car are solid - expect above average reliability from everything except the engine .

The bottom line here is to go into the RX8 experience with your eyes wide open. Don’t go into it expecting an economy car and economy car reliability. Go into it expecting the reliability of an exotic, with the driving dynamics of an exotic, and engine maintenance costs (and frequency) of a Land Rover.

The problem with the RX-8 isn’t the cars themselves, it’s owners who don’t understand that owning a rotary is different than owning a piston engine’d car. Thus, you can find low compression examples that are still in great shape and fully loaded but need an engine for pennies now a’days. It’s an awesome car, think of it as a heavy Miata with a roof and a back seat. I loved mine, I only sold it because I had performed a few modifications and realized it would never pass smog when I moved back to CA a few years ago. As far as I know my former car is still in its 3rd owner’s hands, and he’s loving every minute of it. He premixes. RX8club.com is where I got most of the info (and support) needed to buy a slushbox equipped RX-8, (and do an MT swap) and if you buy one of these that already has a manual transmission, good news, all you have to do is pull and replace the engine which takes even less time. There’s also an !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! that is probably a ton better than the disjointed drivel I’m about to spew forth (and this !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .)

First off, forget all you know about piston engines when dealing with a rotary. Here are some examples of the differences.

1. By design, these use oil, around 1.5 - 2qt per 3000-5000 miles. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! by EverydayDriver on youtube that talks about how they used almost 1/2 qt of oil in one day of hard driving. Oil is cheap, don’t worry about it.

2. The Renesis 13B-MSP (2-rotor, multi-side-port) Wankel engine burns oil as a part of the combustion process and thus, go through catalytic converters like a MoFo - 60k is a good estimate if you premix.

3. DO NOT USE Synthetic oil. Good for pistons, not good for Wankels.

4. Premixing 2 stroke oil or specifically designed Idemitsu premix actually helps these engines last longer.

5. A redline a day keeps the carbon away - carbon in these cars is the enemy of compression. See my talk about decarb’ing.

6. Hot starting. If the seller professes the engine to be “new” or have “good compression”, a true test of whether or not the engine you have is going to last more than just a year or two is to get the car good and hot and turn it off. Wait about 30 seconds to one minute, then try to start it (as if you were filling up your gas tank, or running into the store to grab something real quick. If it starts right up, you’re usually OK in the compression department. But to double check / ensure that you’re good, get a legit compression test. Using a normal, piston engine’d compression tester will not give you an accurate result. In order to gauge compression accurately, these engines need to be at a specific temperature, with the rotors spinning at a precise RPM (or at least normalized to that RPM by a rotary compression tester).

7. A word about compression and hot starting. These actually start easier when *cold* believe it or not. I won’t bore you with the details but the TL;DR version is that the epitrochoid shape of the rotor housing expands and contracts with heat, and when it expands it pushes the walls of the rotor housings slightly further away from the apex seals. When the seals are on their way out they out, they can no longer make contact for long enough to ensure sufficient combustion. Same is true but to a lesser extent for the side seals.

8. 1.3L of displacement is a bit misleading. A normal 1.3l engine would return favorable fuel economy and have low emissions. The displacement of 1.3 liters is one thing, but you get twice as many combustions per revolution - so it’s technically, for emissions purposes, a 2.6l.

9. You’ve probably heard me spout off about “the horsepower of a V6, the torque of an I4, and the thirst of a V8.” Yes, yes, and yes. But when you’re elbow deep in a flat out 3rd gear corner edging closer to 9kRPM in one of these things that you’ve done all of the work on yourself, none of that really matters. These cars are an absolute scorching deal right now if you’re handy with a spanner and you go into it with reasonable expectations. I would also budget for a copy of Cobb’s Access Tuner - Race, and a Cobb Access Port to modify MOP tables and suppress CELs from when you inevitably have to gut the cat.

My thought is that the reason these cars have such a bad rep is that people buy a 6 year old example for $4000 with a knackered engine but they expect it to act lil’ like a 6 year old piston engine’d car. There’s a lot of misinformation out there, too. But there is good news though, everything else is pure Mazda - brakes, suspension, steering, components, sensors, interior, etc, all of that is good to go and requires little maintenance. If you get a Grand Touring, there’s all of the amenities you’d expect in a $40k car, for under $3000. Leather, satnav (optional), 6spd manual, limited slip diff, TCS, Stability control, heated power seats, awesome audio system, large sunroof etc.

As far as market references if you’d like to focus on two distinct categories of RX-8 that would be a start. One category is the 100% running and driving examples that are either obscenely low mileage OR had their engines replaced by Mazda during their 100k engine warranty extension program (though there are a few notable - and vocal on the forums - exceptions, generally there’s no such thing as a 120,000+ mile RX-8 on its original engine that I would feel comfortable relying on as daily transportation). The other category is the cars that need engine replacements. Sub categories to the latter can be buy a used engine, buy rebuilt from a reputable shop, or rebuild yourself. Don’t buy an auto. Ever. Unless you’re planning on doing a manual swap like I did. The 2006+ auto had a 6 port with 212bhp. ‘04-’05 autos had a 4 port that supplied 189-ish bhp depending on who you ask and believe it or not, slightly more torques. Typically the 6 ports have more vac lines due to the APV/VDI (the 4 port only has the SSV). One way to tell would be to look at the dash cluster in the car. Redline at 9k = 6 port, redline at ~7k = 4 port

A quick scan of my local classified produced a dozen RX8’s in the 80k - 120k mile range, all Grand Tourings (leather, heated seats, LSD, sunroof, etc) all below $3000, all needing an engine but otherwise in good shape. For reference 2 years ago I bought a 2005 base RX8 that needed an engine for $500 and some entertainment system wiring work. I bought a JDM engine and trans for $1200 shipped. I drove it for a while and sold it for $5500.

Dynamically these cars are awesome. They feel like they rotate around the gearshift knob, they can rev literally forever (though they stop making power above 10krpm I’ve been told), and they are suuuuper smooth.

You can search any craigslist and find piles of cheap blown-engine RX-8s, but just for illustrative purposes, here are a few.

Here is a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! automatic covered in Japananime style graphics with a grenaded engine and offered for $3,000 in Long Beach, CA.

The next one is a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! offered for $5,000 in Lakewood, CA with a nasty throw out bearing sound and cabin that smells like gear oil.

Here is a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! with “strong running 120k mile original engine” that doesn’t smell like gear oil, offered for $4,500 in Elk Grove, CA.

Here is a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! with a busted engine, offered for $2200 in Oxnard, CA...but this is just a quick snapshot of cars — just head to your local list and find something cheap, it isn’t like you are searching for a stock STi or non-salvage title E36 M3

If you can find a 6 port 6-spd Touring or Grand Touring car with a toasted engine for under $3k, and a low mileage used-but-tested-good engine for $1500, I’d say you got yourself a sweet deal for under $4500 that you can flog the beans out of for 3 or 4 years before you have to think about hot start issues.

Speaking of hot starts, if you end up buying one of these ticking time bombs, you need to read up on the starter business !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . TL;DR version — Look for the newest p/n, these starters spin at a faster RPM and can stave off the dreaded rebuild (i.e. hot start failure) for a year or more.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier is that these things will flood if you shut them off after a cold start before the engine has a chance to fully warm up. Or they will flood on a hot start if you have really low compression. To cook off the cat they dump fuel in on a cold start. If you shut it off before the engine is fully warmed up, the excess fuel in the chambers will wash the oil film away from the rotor housing surface (where the infamous “apex seal” does its thing) and cause a low compression condition.

If you’re going the used engine route, I implore you to have the compression checked with a rotary compression tester. I’m not going to get into the intricacies of how they work because there are a dozen youtube videos out there showing exactly what happens and why.

If you’re going the rebuilt route, 2 words: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Or even if you go used, you can sell Rotary Resurrection your old “keg” (what the rotary “block” looks like) which is what I did. He paid for shipping, and gave me ~$200 - 250 for my knackered old engine.

After selling spares from the swap (duplicate pulleys, injectors, throttle body, sensors, alternator, MOP, MOP lines & injectors, harness, ECU etc) I ended up only paying $700 for the used engine.

Another note: sometimes you can get lucky with a car that the owner says “won’t hot start” “just stalled on me on the highway” or floods... check the model number on the starter and check the health/age of the battery. Even if both look new, check them. While I was acquiring parts for my swap I was actually able to daily drive the car after I replaced the battery with an older (but still 100%) Optima red top I had laying around and upgraded the starter to the latest and greatest. I also de-carbed the car a few times.

Every now and then you can get lucky and decarb these engines (much more involved than just sticking a vac line into a can of Seafoam and bouncing it off the rev limiter for a few minutes) and regain some lost compression. Carbon (due to unburned fuel + the oil required by these engines to lube the apex seals) can over time decrease compression enough so that it won’t hot start.

Most cars have timing belts you change out every 100k and if done at the dealer will cost $1000 - 2000 (like my Audi...). If you play your cards right, you can get a good used replacement engine for that much dough — wring another 4 - 5 years out of it, love every last second of it, and sell it along for about what you paid when you’re done. But don’t go in expecting to make any money. And don’t go in expecting it to be easy (though it isn’t hard). I put myself through college (before I joined the military to pay off my loans) wrenching on cars, so I’m fairly handy and I do have a garage and full set of tools. HOWEVER All I really needed to pull the entire engine AND transmission from this car in under 4 hours was a $29.99 100 piece made-in-China tool kit and a used $100 engine hoist. I think I had to buy one 22mm socket for the PPF bolts. That’s PPF for PowerPlantFrame... yep the same thing as in a Miata. I didn’t even have to discharge the A/C I just moved the compressor out of the way. It takes me longer to pull the engine in my Volvo and I’ve done that a dozen times.

Lastly, if you’re ever down on your luck and pissed at the car, check !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! where they took an RX-8 and put it up against a BR-Z/FRS back when the BR-Z/FRS came out. Even though it was a few years older, it actually held up admirably to the Toyobaru twins... and providing you can get one in good shape just needing an engine, it should cost you much less than a Toyobaru as well.

That’s about it. If you want to look at 1st gen RX8 vs 2nd gen RX8 that’s fine but if you’re going to stick around the $2500 - 5000 “all in” budget, I think the 2nd gen RX8 will be out of that pricerange.

Originally written by RyanM and published as !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! on !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

Big thanks to RyanM for taking time away from his newborn baby to write this article and help save a few RX-8s from the junkyard. All images from mazdausamedia.com, except craigslist where noted.

jkm7680 > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 13:41

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I give these the stamp of “Avoid at all costs.”

RallyWrench > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 13:49

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ly2v8-Brian > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 13:54

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You make a good argument. I like these (not as much as an FC or FD RX7). I will file this under potential projects to consider.

DailyTurismo > RallyWrench 07/01/2015 at 14:00

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I approve of this message.

DailyTurismo > ly2v8-Brian 07/01/2015 at 14:01

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If you can get past the fact that the engines last as long as a timing belt, these are great little cars.

Justin Hughes > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 14:05

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Mike > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 14:05

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I don’t care what people say, the RX-8 is still one of my favorite cars of the 2000’s. Yeah it’s not at all reliable, but it’s a good car with excellent driving dynamics and enough space to be a usable DD. It’s basically the FR-S/BR-Z ten years earlier with a more interesting (and more asplody) engine and some extra half-doors.

DailyTurismo > Justin Hughes 07/01/2015 at 14:07

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Wankel, wankel very much.

LongbowMkII > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 14:11

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I <3 rotaries. I’m on a couple local rotary boards and sub 2k RX-8 posts are common.
Great chassis just not what I need right now.

LongbowMkII > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 14:17

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Although now I’m stuck on RR’s eBay page...anyone want to donate $1000?

Stephen the Canuck > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 14:31

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So basically LS swap? I have always liked how these cars looked, and heard fantastic things about the handling. The engine has always put me off though. An engine swap would fix it though. Maybe the V6 out of an MX3.

SaveTheClassics > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:34

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I love the little half doors on my i3, because they make sense. The little half-doors on the RX-8 made zero sense then and still make zero sense. The back seats are still severely lacking on leg room, and that little half door and trying to give a tiny bit more legroom in the back absolutely ruined the side profile look of the car. Looks great from the front, great from the back, but the proportions are weirdly/terribly ugly all because of those stupid half-doors.


But to be fair, the RX-8 succeeded what I still believe is the most beautiful Japanese car ever made (the FD3S) other than the Toyota 2000GT. So it was destined to be uglier than its predecesor, but it's like they were trying to make it more practical with those little stupid half-doors but they COMPLETELY forgot that there is nothing practical about a RWD rotary powered Mazda.

PJ > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:35

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Take all of these extra maintenance concerns into hand just so you, too, can enjoy an engine with all the torque of a late 90s Civic but with the gas mileage of a 3500 Sierra pickup!

infinityedge > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:37

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You know you want to....

McMike > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:38

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Clubbed by a Seal

TheCrudMan > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:40

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That’s not the right line out of turn 10....

472CID > McMike 07/01/2015 at 15:45

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Seal with Seals clubbing seals with the Club?

ReforMatt > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:47

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Awesome Article! i owned a loaded 2004 RX-8 GT for 6 years and traded it last year for a ‘15 WRX. while the WRX is a better car in every way, the RX-8 was simply more fun. The car does not get nearly the respect it deserves. and to be clear, all you FRS/BRZ lovers... and RX-8 will beat it in every category... Period.

Dolemite > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:47

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I had an ‘8 about hmm 8 years ago, it was a Grand Touring. It’s as you said, basically a bigger Miata that is faster. Looked great, seemed to be from the future. Bought it for 22k from a dealer, sold it to a guy a few years later for 17k. Funny, I just got an offer from a dealer this week to buy it back, despite the fact I haven’t owned it in years, and they were offering something like $1,500-$2,500 range for it. I said “how does it go from 32K new to 22k a few years later, to 2k a few more years later? The car is only 10-11 years old!

Admiral Asskicker > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:47

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Also, if you have a pre-08 engine, replace the ignition coils. install an oil catch can.

CobraJoe > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:49

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Ok, serious question: Would you reccomend one of these as a primary commuter car (about 15m one way) that on rare occasion will see family hauling duties?

I love that it’s basically a sports car with accessible rear seats, and that it should be big enough to hold 2 kids seats, but I’m worried about the wankel’s longevitiy when driving it everyday. I love working on my own cars, but I’d need it to be reliable enough to let me continue working on my project car instead. If the seals go out, can you just replace the seals or rotors or do you need a whole new engine?

Whats the verdict?

protodad > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:49

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HEY Thats my old RX8! The silver one with the black wheels. It didn’t smell like gear oil when I sold it but the clutch noise was there the whole time I owned it. The suspension on that car is worth almost as much as the car itself these days (JIC FLT-A2).

I second everything in this article. Especially anything concerning hot starting. Check it multiple times as it seems to be the easiest indicator of health in these cars. Also, if you get it inspected, make sure you take it somewhere that has some sort of clue as to what they are doing.

Lastly, check the clutch pedal. They are known to break at the flimsy stamped metal attachment point. $150 or some time with a welder can fix most “clutch problems” people are having .

Bunty Brown > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:51

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This was all over my head when I read it. Then I went and did some reading on wenkels, and now I want one, just for the challenge. Very cool write up. Thanks!

Whatabouteggs > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:52

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Or a better idea, these make amazing ls1 swap cars. 2K for a shell made in 04? Huge aftermarket? Available swap kits? It’s on my list. Uglier than sin though.

Boter > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:53

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I wish car manufacturers would do more of the quad coupes (or whatever you’d like to call them). The RX-8 was the last, and I think the first, on the market with them, the only other being the Saturn Ion coupe.

I do have an Ion coupe and love the quad doors (no pesky B-pillar while loading up) but hope that eventually when it’s time for me to get a new car there are options on the market again.

PrefabulatedAmulite > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:54

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Garrett Davis > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:56

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God damn it. First HammerheadFistPunch has got me scanning CL for Land Cruiser 80’s, and now I’m searching for RX-8s.

My girlfriend is not going to be happy...

Clever title, BTW.

PrefabulatedAmulite > PrefabulatedAmulite 07/01/2015 at 15:56

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In all seriousness, I would rather buy a ‘97 S14 240SX with a blown motor for 2K and put the other $3K in engine and suspension mods, update the interior, better sound system, kouki conversion, and be on my way and not spend $2K every 2 years after that other than tires.

Cigarette Butt Plug > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:56

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I had one for 5 years. Had 2 engine changes, starter, ac controller, parking brake, ac compressor all go bad. Also had water in the taillights that then led to the trunk on really rain days, resulted in rusted emergency tools and trunk floor. Also the underside rusted quite a bit when daily driven in Detroit.

Oh. I still loved that car and wish I had it over its replacement.

damnthisburnershitsux > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:58

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this is how you get exotic performance and handling with american sbc reliability

Takuro Spirit > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:58

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^ Works at a Mazda dealer. Has seen 120k mile RX-8s on original engines. ONE was an automatic.

Every thing else you said is spot on.

Blair > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 15:59

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The only RX-8 worth a shit is an R3 with an LS7.......period. All the torque and none of the reliability problem. “ oh but the front noise is heavy”........guess what, your not talented enough to feel that

Xkjacob > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:00

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I have a 2009.

My sister had a series one and the transmission went out before the engine, awkwardly enough. Stop popping the clutch sister!!

Some, oh hey advice.

1. 3k mile oil changes not 6k.

2. Every two gas fill ups check out level. 1/2 waymark on dip stick is a quart. Try and keep it above halfway.

3. Changing the air filter is a pain in the ass. You’ll want to check it after oil changes. Your intake can fill with oil if you fill too much or fast.

4. Don’t buy from or k&N oil filters, out engines oil pressure runs high enough to engage their bypass function, so your oil doesn’t get cleaned. By Mazda one. They are under 10 bucks, bulk buy them.

5. I hate changing my air filter every 10k. But I haven’t found a good intake replacement. :(

6. Beware coils failing.

7. If you do a bunch of short errands with this car don’t. Sometimes the stereo will stop working when doing tons of errands and it being on off on off on off repeatedly. It is meant to be driven, adjust your errands accordingly.

8. Let it heat up for 5 minutes or assuming your temp sensor works, the first red set of bars go away before you drive it.

9. If you hold the TCS button for 7-10 seconds it disables rear brake stabilizing. I never drive with it on. Some people think it is essential. I don’t.

10. Have fun.

Blair > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:01

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rX-7 love the LS swap

......RX-8 need the LS swap, there's the difference

fritzo > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:01

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Just a thought: isn’t any cheap car a good deal if you’re handy with a spanner?

space_captain_steve > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:01

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Here’s mine from the other day!

I’ve had it for just over a year now. F’in love this car.

space_captain_steve > Stephen the Canuck 07/01/2015 at 16:04

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Lord no, anyone who engine swaps on an RX8 is a heretical bastard that should be burned at the stake. Well, maybe not quite, but I digress. The RENESIS is what makes this car.

McMike > 472CID 07/01/2015 at 16:04

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I heard you liked clubs and seals, so we....

Rockchops > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:05

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I have an 04 auto “touring” (not grand touring) that is cosmetically not the greatest (minor hail damage and a dented rear bumper), and compression seems to be mediocre (needs to sit about a minute before it’ll fire again). It’s currently my daily driver with 53k on it. I bought it was a NFG winter/rallyx car and it was great at that until our local rallyx was canceled :(. Anyone interested? PM an offer?

The Stig's graphic designer cousin > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:07

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This isn’t a 1st gen RX8. The second gen has a ton of internal changes that makes the engine much, much more reliable than that of the 1st gen. If you are going to get an RX8, skip the 1st gens, unless you like russian roulette, and get an 09+.

PolyGeekism > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:10

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Have one and love it. Although I am highly considering a Ls swap when the engine finally kicks it, again. My chassis is on it’s 3rd motor, although most of the miles on the first two were logged before my care.

RX > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:11

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Damn, I could only get halfway through before really missing my car.

Bought new. Sold with a dead engine @100k. At least I know it where it went and is back on the road.

472CID > McMike 07/01/2015 at 16:11

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Not relevant

nerd_racing > Rockchops 07/01/2015 at 16:12

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location?

space_captain_steve > PJ 07/01/2015 at 16:13

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numbers stats numbers 0-60 times displacement more numbers gas mileage numbers never driven an rx8 hey bro check out my mustang

DailyTurismo > damnthisburnershitsux 07/01/2015 at 16:13

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This is a pretty common swap, and ends in a faster car, but you lose some of that ZOOM ZOOM character that a 9,000 rpm wankel brings to the table.

mrbwa1 > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:14

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Ahh, the joys of the Rotary. We always pushed my dad’s RX7 into the driveway to wash it. Starting it and backing up a few feet was a sure fire way to flood it out.

Bit of you a a 13B, you probably know the drill and have a dap of paint on the magic fuse....

The rotary is a really easy engine to get in and out, but dang there were a lot of little connections! Also, the flywheel nut is torqued to like 300 ft/lbs or something.

The only other “surprise” is that why rebuilder worth a darn will require receipts of a cooling system and oil cool flush and test (or replacement) if you want that warranty to be valid.

On the plus side, most rebuilders do a street port&polosh for just a few $$ that adds a litt oomph.

damnthisburnershitsux > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:15

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no doubt but I think having the rotary has some obvious advantages, I just had to knee jerk the meme cause it fit so well

Skamanda > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:16

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With the auto-swap, are there any things you lose? For example, on Subarus if you swap from auto to manual, if you don’t replace TONS of other stuff you lose cruise control. Any things like that to consider with these? I’m way more likely to buy one with the manual already in it, but you never know what kind of deals pop up sometimes...

TookOfAFool > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:17

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For those cars that do require an engine rebuild, is that something that could be done in a garage? Is it just the seals that need replaced?

DailyTurismo > space_captain_steve 07/01/2015 at 16:18

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What if you swapped in Genesis power?

Skamanda > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:18

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Are the Shinka editions worth looking at? Other than the paint color (which is sooo pretty in pics), it seems like everything they offer is probably available aftermarket, no?

DailyTurismo > CobraJoe 07/01/2015 at 16:19

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Yes. 30 miles a day isn’t much at all - just follow the above precautions and expect to rebuild the engine every 100k miles. Find someone who has rebuilt the engine propery (no — new engine installed last week swaps) and enjoy.

DailyTurismo > Rockchops 07/01/2015 at 16:20

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Send in some pics/description/price to tips@dailyturismo.com and I’ll post it up.

PJ > space_captain_steve 07/01/2015 at 16:20

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I tried to drive an RX-8 once. Owner pulled it out of his garage and into his driveway and then shut off the car.

It was deemed a total loss.

DailyTurismo > The Stig's graphic designer cousin 07/01/2015 at 16:22

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Dang - you found me out! I snuck in that picture of a 2009 RX-8 because it was on-track and sporty looking. Lots of additional good pics (hi-res too) at the Mazda media usa website. Just go to the vehicle archives and drop down to select your favorite post 2007 Mazda.

DailyTurismo > Takuro Spirit 07/01/2015 at 16:22

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RyanM knows his RX Mazdas from 8-to-Z.

space_captain_steve > CobraJoe 07/01/2015 at 16:24

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My commute to work is just about 15 miles and I daily drive it. If you are very concerned with reliability go for the o9+ models (series 2) as they have improvements to the engine & carmax it with a warranty . Get a manual too, because extra redline and HP. There is a theory that the restricted 7.5k redline of the auto is partially to blame for carbon buildup (the rotors can’t reach peak power so it can’t get the gunk out of the engine).

My verdict is that the RX8 is the most fun car I’ve ever driven. Test drive it and see if you like it. If you decide to make the plunge you should definitely use RX8club forums as a resource for best maintenance practices. But in a nutshell, just do oil topoffs, change oil, and drive it like you stole it (a redline a day keeps the mechanic away?).

DailyTurismo > TheCrudMan 07/01/2015 at 16:24

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Mazda PR model says....

DailyTurismo > Boter 07/01/2015 at 16:25

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Yeah, you can get them on a crew-cab pickup, but thats about it.

DailyTurismo > space_captain_steve 07/01/2015 at 16:25

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Needs mohr APEX!! j/k - looks good.

OldManMcKenna > PJ 07/01/2015 at 16:26

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Har har har, covered this with the “Power of a V6, torque of an I4 and thirst of a V8” comment in the article. But thanks for playing.

DailyTurismo > PJ 07/01/2015 at 16:27

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Yeah, never turn off an RX-8 engine. It’s like a can of pringles, once you stop, it goes pop.

space_captain_steve > PJ 07/01/2015 at 16:27

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That’s why most RX8’s you still see on the road are driven by people who actually read the owners manual

PJ > space_captain_steve 07/01/2015 at 16:27

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In all seriousness, I’ve driven two. The car is right down my alley in terms of high-revving, handling-focused RWD, but it broke my heart with the release issues (vague “emissions” downrating at port without Mazda ever saying anything of the sort until people had ordered cars, extremely poor gas mileage for such a car [let’s face it - it was going to be a lot of people’s dailies and with the “4-door” was marketed as such, so this is a punch in the gut], and issues with the Renesis when we were promised “We really got it right this time! Hey guys! Rotary! No apex seal issues! Reliability! You’ll love it!”).

I bought a 2004 3 instead. Loved that car. Really wished they had just turned the 2.3L turbo 4 sideways and put it into the 8 chassis. Years later, owned an S2000, was bewildered how people would ever choose the 8 over that unless they were adamant that they frequently needed the not-spacious back seats for something.

PolyGeekism > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:27

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I DD mine when my ankle is not freshly off of receiving a metal upgrade, and have never looked back. Fits people better than any coupe-ish thing should, has decent trunk space, and it fun as hell to rev. I actually do wish I had a smidge more power, and I might just hang onto it until I can drop a V8 into it, blasphemy or not.

When she is freshly clean, I still get people asking me if it’s new and mine is an 05, so it still turns heads to despite being a decade old.

Wezbian > TheCrudMan 07/01/2015 at 16:28

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+1, this guy knows what he’s talking about.

Juan Lacayo > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:29

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Wow. Amazing write up Ryan. I owned a 2004 MT Grand Touring model from 2004 to 2013. I never had a problem with it...until the engine lost compression. I blame myself: I showed a GTi who’s boss on the highway before I brought the oil mark higher on the stick.

It needed a new engine after that. I got a new engine, but it failed to maintain compression. I sold it for, ironically, a Golf R—which was faster, better equipped, more spacious, but not more fun to drive.

I miss the Rx8 because nothing else feels like it on the road. It can corner with the best of them. And I mean the BEST of them all.

But I attest to getting 15 mpg. You have to make it go "beep" daily. And if it takes a few seconds to turn over anytime, hot or cold, then pass.

DailyTurismo > PolyGeekism 07/01/2015 at 16:29

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The RX-8 was a premium car from Mazda when released, so it isn’t surprising that it still turns heads and looks good.

Juan Lacayo > protodad 07/01/2015 at 16:29

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How did you break the clutch pedal!?

DailyTurismo > damnthisburnershitsux 07/01/2015 at 16:30

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True. Actually, an MX-5 is Zoom Zoom, and the RX-8 is Zoom Boom.

SwiftStriker > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:30

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Picked one up for $2700CDN in running condition. Had fun with it for a few months, spent the winter tinkering, and now have this...

Takuro Spirit > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:30

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Next time a guy calls for an “OEM supercharger” for one I’ll send them his way. o.0

PJ > OldManMcKenna 07/01/2015 at 16:31

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I did kind of skim through and didn’t see it. Honestly, “thirst of a V8” doesn’t quite do the MPG justice. I’m thinking Cummins turbo diesel or at best, Chevrolet LSA.

BAM2k > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:36

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Alt Title: APEX ALL THE THINGS!!

DailyTurismo > Takuro Spirit 07/01/2015 at 16:36

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Ask if he has the optional Genesis motor....?

DLu > CobraJoe 07/01/2015 at 16:37

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I drive my ‘11 R3, 10 miles each way, daily when there is no snow. I have 2 front-facing child seats in the back. The freestyle/suicide doors are a bonus for kid-transport duty. I plan to drive it for the next 15 years that it takes me to get to the 100k miles. The depreciation is depressing, so if you are looking a Gen-2 may be better and quite cheap.

AgentBauman > CobraJoe 07/01/2015 at 16:38

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I daily drove a second-gen RX-7 for five years including Minnesota winters (it was fairly rusty so I didn’t give two effs about salt), put about 10,000 miles on it per year.

I went through an entire exhaust system (replaced the whole rusty mess from the header back with a Racing Beat stainless system), two alternators, one water pump, a radiator, oil pan and rear subframe before I sold it because it could only fit one car seat in the back (I had the goofy rear seats and you had to have the passenger seat all the way to the firewall to make it baby.)

The motor didn’t give me any major issues the entire time but was starting to have hot start flooding problems towards the end of my ownership. I did block-off the stock oiling system and ran pre-mix, the final count on the clock before sale was pretty close to the 145k mark.

Chariotoflove > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:41

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My 2004 Rx-8 (with the AT) has been my daily driver since I got it. It commutes; it baby’s; it does the Sam;s Club and grocery runs and anything else—in all weather. It had the engine replacement under the warranty program. It’s been hella fun and as reliable as any family car for over 11 years now. All I have to do is keep the oil topped and not turn it off cold.

Meh > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:41

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Whats is the difference in the JDM engine vs the US spec?

PJ > CobraJoe 07/01/2015 at 16:42

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I think if mpg isn’t a factor in your criteria for a commuter, and you yearn for a good-handling RWD ride, then yes. Especially if you’re looking for sporty commuter on a light up-front budget.

If you’re willing to part with RWD and have more of a budget, for something performance-oriented but family-friendly, I’d probably look more towards a Mazdaspeed 3 or a Focus ST. As long as the 3 doesn’t rust into a red pile on you, could make up time and $ spent on repairs and at the pump to some degree.

jimmy-buffett > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:44

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This car is the epitome of “different for the sake of being different”.

Don’t get me wrong, I respect these cars. We once had a group drive in Colorado with a mad Russian driving one and I literally couldn’t lose the guy, short of risking driving off the mountain. With that said, the NSX guy in front of both of us took off and we didn’t catch him until he stopped 40 miles later.

But own one, personally? Madness. As another poster already said, I require more out of my engines than the lifespan of a timing belt.

To contradict Jalopnik lore, the answer is always S2000. AP1 if you gotta have 9K, AP2 if you’re just buying it to cruise. You’ll pay more up front, sure, but it will cost less in the long run. And if you take proper care of it, odds are you’ll make money when you sell it.

Stan > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:44

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Question: Are there any common engine swaps for the RX8? I am imagining one with a Subaru turbo motor.

JDL > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:49

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phigs > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:52

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Wait... I didn’t see the section on decarb’ing! I need dis... I have an ‘04 RX-8 in Wisconsin. I’ve done the “redline everyday” and “Seafoam in the vac line” but you say it’s not that simple?

TooManyBMWs > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:53

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I bought my 04 RX8 new off of the lot, and sold 7 years later it only because it a) was not a commuter car and b) I commuted a lot. I simply did not drive it enough to justify it. It had 80k+ miles on it and I did not have the first engine issue with it. I always waited for it to warm up by gingerly driving it, then I drove the living piss out of it. Oil changes were always at 3k. I will leave this here (turn 8 at Road Atlanta).

If I didnt catch the E30 then E46 bug, I would still have it.

Floorittheresazombie > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:53

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Gtfoh $2500-$5000 for a blown motor rx8. Is it going to suck me and fuck me also?

PolyGeekism > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:55

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Oh yeah, its crazy how much they depreciated. They started at $32,000 and they just tanked after that. I bought mine with 40k miles on it for $10,900 and it was 6 years old at the time. I was also looking at Mazdaspeed 3’s but you couldn’t find one for less than like $16k at the time. If I was buying new at the time it would have been the 3 all day, started at $27k vs the $32k for the 8, but the used market was definitely in the 8’s favor.

CobraJoe > PJ 07/01/2015 at 16:57

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I am looking for a sporty commuter on a tight budget, and RX8 would be absolutely perfect (if I like it, I haven’t test drove one yet). MS3 and ST are high on the list if I can spend a bit more and don’t want to do the wankel, but I can’t get over the thought of the RX8 yet.

CobraJoe > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 16:59

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Awesome. There’s always the possibility that I won’t like the way it drives, but I think that’s rather slim. Other worry is finding one in the condition I want, but luckily I’m not in a rush.

CobraJoe > DLu 07/01/2015 at 17:00

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That sounds great to me. I’d have to use it in the snow, but I’m not afraid of RWD in slippery conditions.

Stephen the Canuck > space_captain_steve 07/01/2015 at 17:01

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Even if I kept it in the Mazda family? What about the new Mustang’s turbo 4?

garakawa > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 17:04

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Best car I ever had, my S2 RX-8.

CobraJoe > space_captain_steve 07/01/2015 at 17:04

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I would absolutely get the manual, autos leave me bored. Carmax warranty might be a smart thing to do, but I’m not afraid of working on it myself as long as I could limp it home.

I’m mostly convinced, now I just need to test drive one and see if I actually like it. (I tend to favor torquy engines, but I haven’t experienced a wankel.)

doubleshotpower > Stan 07/01/2015 at 17:14

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There is an RX8 in the Cincinnati area with a 5.7 Chevy under the hood. Ran into it a few years ago at an SCCA event. I recall him saying he did some fabrication work to it but the car was basically perfect and was his daily driver with that sb Chevy in it.

SlickMcRick > CobraJoe 07/01/2015 at 17:15

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I’ll say this. The RX-8 is a joy to drive. I regret not pulling the trigger on one at CarMax. People complain it’s slow but it’s 0-60 is a tick of 6 seconds which is quite respectable. The speed just builds up gradually and smoothly. No kick in but torque but you’ll love ringing it out. It does have enough low end to get out of it’s own way. And my goodness it’s handling is to die for. This article really has me considering looking back into getting one. I’ve always loved the design and uniqueness of it.

space_captain_steve > Stephen the Canuck 07/01/2015 at 17:17

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Still heresy. Give me wankel or give me death. A 20B might be an acceptable swap.

SlickMcRick > Boter 07/01/2015 at 17:22

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Does the Honda Element count somewhat? That’s all I got.

SlickMcRick > space_captain_steve 07/01/2015 at 17:23

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What model year is it?

mtdrift > DailyTurismo 07/01/2015 at 17:24

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My local List of the Craigs is absolutely overrun with RX8s right now. I really love this looks of this car (not a wasted line or angle on the thing, and the stock wheels look amazing), and the only time I drove one I was extremely impressed.

At these price points, its awfully tempting. Thanks for the knowledge.